Homebrew Website Club

Tantek Çelik:

there are a lot of standards being developed outside the core standards bodies like IETF and w3c - like whatwg

brianbehlendorf:

Apache got fed up with w3c process a while ago. Trouble is that nobody changes their mind in public any more

if you can talk with people in person you can often change their minds and then have it formally reflected

I tried to implement OpenID at ostpc.gov - if you used Yahoo's OpenID you got a horrible ugly url

I view the ability to have private communications between individuals as a human right - end to end encryption

Tantek Çelik:

can we ensure that privacy against people who have nuclear weapons?

Jason Ingalls:

I can give them a run for their money

think of security as like a block of swiss cheese - you don't want those holes to line up and make a path through

Tantek Çelik:

I want to harden myself to a reasonable level of security, but not from state-level actors

John Rogerson:

I worry about the silos creating attractive pools of data that is worth hacking

brianbehlendorf:

the NTP amplification attack last week meant that NTP daemons could be used to DDoS others

Tantek Çelik:

we care less about use of resources than compromising our private data

we want to be able to send and host private messages peer to peer without them being compromised

brianbehlendorf:

if you want to host an email server you want to make sure you aren't on a host that has been blacklisted before

Tantek Çelik:

email is not hackable in the good sense- you can't set it up yourself and hack it

brianbehlendorf:

one problem with indieweb is that we don't have an end to end internet any more

Tantek Çelik:

we're not trying to reinvent DNS - we assume that works and we'll use it. Lets solve other problems first

the big problems are mostly UI and not plumbing - that is what holds back the indieweb. Solve UI first

my whole site is set up on flat files, I don't even use a database - I don't need to remember some bizarro mysql password

brianbehlendorf:

I love that tantek and I are fetishizing different bits of the stack - I like mail, he likes files

Tantek Çelik:

I can't trust those [email] specs because there aren't test suites for them, unlike HTTP and SSL and HTML

we are trying to solve SSL certs for indieweb, but it is still hard

we have instructions for ssl on various different hosting services: http://indiewebcamp.com/https

John Rogerson:

I've been using Sovereign which is a set of scripts to configure a VPN to host things for you

I like the parallel from the Homebrew Computer Club - it took a while to get things working for them

Tantek Çelik:

the original Homebrew Computing Club didn't have the knowledge sharing mechanisms we get to use easily

brianbehlendorf:

what if most of us got our sustenance from McDonalds, Taco Bell, Subway - we'd lose something. We want kitchens

Tantek Çelik:

it's good that McDonalds are serving unhealthy food, because it gives us a reason to go indie.

If McDonalds could actually serve a full organic paleo meal then it would be more problematic

brianbehlendorf:

did you know the US Postal Service was created before the revolution so they could communicate without the crown eavesdropping?